Posted by Happy Happington on January 15, 2003 at 18:33:34:
In Reply to: The E-Bay HOLTON posted by DS on January 15, 2003 at 11:33:31:
Hi Dietmar, I'll try to speak to your questions in a way that avoids the dogma of "what the market will pay"-type statements, as well as "what's new thats out there selling for"...as I think these aren't really answers but in essence begging your question.
To be sure the "magic" threads have driven interest, but the "shill" accusations (really harsh and slam the seller as much as potential buyers like myself) do tend to off-set the zeal. These horns ARE special, but they are not special for everyone! Were this the case, they would NEVER appear on market, or if the universal speciality were true you'd see far more folks using a horn like this one in many more settings than they are currently found.
I think you can glean a lot of answers from a word search on this BBS for Holton, but rest assured that not many "pros" (at least in the way you are speaking) will be chasing an e-bay Holton anymore than lining up to try their luck with Mr. Nirschl's big tubas. Why? Well, for one Nirschl's not building right now, maybe not at all anymore. Besides, and regardless of the apparent differences between costs, a specialty instrument like this one is hard to justify for most people! This weekend I'd LOVE to use my Holton with our orchestra, but without half-a-dozen basses and a good-sized brace of celloes, its just too much. Oh well, later this season for Pini de Roma maybe. I hope so, because I haven't used it in performance with an orchestra in over a year (Berlioz Requiem off-stage choir)
Build "quality"?....As variable as any hand-hammered horns can be. BBflats aren't necessarily cheaper-built, but an equivalent-caliber CC uncut will easily command double (or more) the price. THAT market values them more. Oh well.
I don't think it is appropriate to try and compare a custom horn (a.k.a. "cut") with another very small group of one-off horns either, it simply cannot be done fairly with words in an sometimes irreverent, often opinionated, and occasionally adversarial forum like this one. I also don't put a lot of weight in Herr Nirschl's claim of a "lot" more interest. 2 horns is frankly just too small a datapoint amongst the tens or even hundreds of thousands of tuba-ists out there.
Like I said, I own a Holton (CC) now, and think it'd be nice to have a sister horn for it. If that happens, great, but truthfully all the "hype", mystique, and reverence is easily lost upon 99.9% of the readers of this forum, although it is far more fun to think aloud online about BATs than about mass orders of budget horns and who can save fifty bucks on taxes here or there ;^} Most folks have never even seen one! While that is indicative of their uncommon-ness, it doesn't define monetary value de facto
As to "value"? Which is worth what and why and how much more or less? They are uncommon beasts, expensive to begin with and expensive to re-finish to like new condition. One things for sure, the prices "may" be getting inflated by "wag" bidders, which may have been the frustration of the "shill dialogue" earlier (just a very bad offensive choice of words.) Yours was priced fairly, but not inherently a bargain. Rick Denney got one recently, priced fairly and again, not inherently a bargain. The same will be for this auction horn thats "up" now, just like when mine was sold new in 1972 for like, 1200 bucks?!?