Posted by Rick Denney on July 30, 2002 at 11:21:34:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Mirafone 186 for sale - great condition posted by Klaus on July 29, 2002 at 19:50:57:
Klaus identifies the key philosophical difference that is at the root of these arguments. There are some folks who feel the need to protect the unwitting from being deceived. They believe that lack of challenge to what is perceived as a high price is tacit approval of that price by the "consensus".
Klaus's use of the word "consensus" exposes his position, which is, I'm sure, rooted in many years of teaching where the welfare of his students was his primary concern. While I admire that sense of responsibility, I differ with Klaus on this point--the only consensus that is required on the price of anything is between the buyer and the seller.
I fall into the second camp, which includes those who believe that the market works as it should without such external guidance. That is why I've never complained about the price of something I had no intention of buying. Pricing information on tubas is readily available from a variety of source, including the web pages of the major dealers. The price reached between a buyer and a seller is a fair price by definition because both parties agree to it, under the assumption that both parties have access to pricing information. Nobody else has to either know the price or agree to it. There is no need for consensus or discussion, unless it is sought by a party to the transaction.
Many would say that I paid too much for my York Master, were I to disclose the price (which I have no intention of doing). But each time I pick up that instrument, I get joy from it in terms of sound. I don't regret a dime of the price I paid, even though others might have wanted to protect me from myself. Pricing is not set by the "marketplace", which is some fictitious analysis of buyers made by people not doing the buying. Pricing is set by the buyers, who constitute the "market" and do their speaking with their money. If Ryan finds no buyers at his price, he will lower it. If someone wants the horn but thinks the price is too high, he will make Ryan an offer. My first reaction to the post that suggested $4200 was, "Is that a firm offer?"
Now, if one of Klaus's students were to ask him if the price is appropriate, Klaus would respond admirably in accordance with his conscience and concern for the welfare of the student. If a buyer seeks consensus on a price in a public forum, then that is the heat the seller has to bear. But that is not what we've seen here.
Rick "who thinks haggling ought to take place in private" Denney