Posted by Rick Denney on February 02, 2004 at 13:35:14:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Forget what I said before. posted by occurs on CC and BBb on February 02, 2004 at 12:58:50:
I've heard you say this before, and I'm arriving at this conclusion myself (though I never really doubted it).
The low F on my Holton has to be fed, and not force-fed. Forced feeding results in the note shutting down altogether. It is less of an effect on the Miraphone 186, but I can still feel it. The York Master does not show this effect, which is why I've referred to it as having a magic fourth valve. Dale reports the same effect on his B&M CC.
The Yamaha 621 F tuba also has that magic fourth valve. I agree with Chuck that it must be a design issue, but I really don't know what it is. The low C on the 621 is just there, and you can overblow it and make it as ugly as you want, heh, heh.
The B&S's fourth valve can't be overblown, but it can surely be blown. When I asked friends to try it out--CC-playing friends who don't play F's--they commented on the different blowing characteristics of the fourth-valve notes. But we are accustomed to relaxing on the contrabass note at the bottom of the tuning scale, as a note that doesn't require any special effort--the easiest note on the horn, or nearly so. We take that expecation to the same pitch on an F.
Why doesn't it happen on Eb's? I don't know for sure, but I think it's because Eb's are different as a class. The Eb tubas most are familiar with are either the Willson, one of the Bessons, or the ancient Eb Monster Bass tubas. The fourth valve on Bessons is a larger bore to open up the compensation system. Plus, the taper designs on Bessons are just plain different than other tubas (this may, in fact, be the secret of the Yamaha--it has a distinctly British design to my eyes). The Monster Bass tubas as a class don't seem to have this effect, or they mask it with other effects, and the Willson F is as good on the fourth valve as the Eb. Not so many folks play rotary Eb tubas of the same general design as rotary F's, but those who do I hope will comment.
But again I think it's the Holton that has forced me to make progress on the notion of feeding air rather than pushing it, and that makes all the rotary F's I tried easier to blow.
Rick "who hopes to counter old age by better thinking" Denney