Posted by AW on March 10, 2003 at 01:56:49:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Different Question About CC vs. BBb posted by Rick Denney on March 10, 2003 at 00:43:12:
Hi Rick,
It is good to be able to express differing views in ways that permit all of us to learn something. In this case, I think a large part of the difference comes from differing musical experiences over a lifetime.
I have spent more of my life playing woodwinds (recorders and modern flute) than tuba. The kind of non-standard intonation we have been discussing would be considered intolerable among treble instruments even in many amateur ensembles. Now that I'm back to tuba, I bring that same sort of standard to my present playing.
I have heard plenty of (not so great) BBb players play pitches all over the place. I suppose there might be a general pattern to the intonation problems, but the random pitch errors do seem larger than any instrument tendencies. In the bands I've played in recently, perhaps it's just my good fortune to have as section mates musicians who don't conform to the (possibly unfair) stereotype of tubists not being up to the musical standards of players of other instruments. At any rate, even if all the brass instruments are in Bb, how are they going to match with the clarinets and saxophones, not to mention the French horns when they use their F sides?
I have always regarded the tuba as being pretty flexible pitch-wise, which means the instrument does less to help the player sound notes in tune. [It's not as flexible as a trombone or violin, though!] I do some slide pulling and pushing, but not to play in tune -- I can do that without touching the slides. Rather, the slide adjustments are for making the notes sound better, as then the tuba is resonating at instead of near the pitch. Of course, it's also easier to hit a note that's right on the resonance of the tuba.
Regarding temperaments and what academics might argue about regarding scales, intervals and temperaments, I think that's a red herring; it's not the issue at all. If community band members can be in tune with all of the notes on a piano (equal temperament with or without stretched octaves), they will be doing well. If, in addition, for held chords, they can flatten the thirds and sevenths a little, the ensemble will sound much better, but that's an extra. I wouldn't even suggest stretching the fifths, as in a larger ensemble it's probably not audible. I think that is all there is to the temperament issue: keep it equal, but tweak it if you can. In other words, let an ordinary tuner be your guide to learning intonation, and if your band director wants to have you do intonation exercises, learn to tweak the pitch a little.
Of course, we all have to adjust if the band as a whole is sharp of flat. Also, given a choice between hearing an out-of-tune bass note or an out-of-tune bass note plus beats, I'll choose no beats. But, when I've had to adjust, it is more often to random intonation from others, not something due to the flat fifth partial of a BBb tuba being in a different place from the flat fifth partial of a CC tuba. I wonder if TubaRay's comment about it being more work in a community band was really because of a section full of BBb tubas or because of a section of amateur tubists who are not trying to play up to the standards of treble instruments.
I have taken some time to explain the origin of my attitude, so you can compare it to your outlook and experience. Perhaps I am being hard on you. If it's fair for me to be hard on you, that's OK with me (at least). However, perhaps my personal experience differs so much from yours and many others that I shouldn't expect so much from community band players, in which case I am being unfair, and I don't want to do that.
I would be interested in reading comments on whether I'm being fair.
Allen Walker
who would like the standards of tuba playing to exceed those of all other instruments