Posted by Rick Denney on February 16, 2004 at 19:35:42:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN & GERMAN posted by bloke on February 16, 2004 at 18:56:10:
Miraphones (186's, of course--the new ones are not as characteristically Miraphone-sounding) and Alexanders are about as different as two tubas can be, except that they are both radically different from, say, a Yorkbrunner, and what makes the different from the HB-50 is similar between them. When Mike Sanders played his Alex, the result was Power Sound, dark and commanding. But when Mike Sanders bought the Yorkbrunner, the result was an omnipresent enveloping color, with less intensity but more character. It evoked smiles rather than demanding respect. Same guy; far different results. I was in the audience, and the difference was dramatic, even though at that stage of my tuba rebirth I had Miraphone lust and had absolutely no other presdisposition.
I'd bet that if you got Bobo to compare a Miraphone to Jim Self's Monica, you'd get a much brighter version of the Power Sound with the Miraphone, but it would still be direct and commanding. With the Monica, it would not be the same effect.
So, I agree that Miraphones and Alexanders are different, but they share a commanding projection that I have never heard from the fat Yorkish tubas, and the Yorkish tubas envelope the hall in ways that the Miraphones and Alexanders don't.
On the other hand, I completely agree that it's nearly impossible to put a finger on what makes those differences other than size. Bell shape has something to do with it. Wrap and bow shape affect it. The taper design and how that fits with the valve technology has a role in there somewhere. The leadpipe taper is also part of the picture. I don't know in what measure these details affect the result, and I don't judge instruments on these details but by how they sound. Even so, the tendencies are there.
When I went shopping for an F tuba, I had a particular sound concept in my head that I recognize as being a German quality. I tried everything, small and large, piston and rotary, German-style and so-called American-style, and ended up with a quintessential German rotary F tuba that reminded me of that sound. Perhaps I programmed myself, but I don't think so. And I backed up my choice with my checkbook, not just with opinions on Tubenet.
As to the labels, it's just a label. The instruments define the terms, not the other way around (is that your point?). My York Master may look like an American-style tuba, but it sounds more like a Miraphone than the Holton. But it doesn't sound like a Miraphone, and the bigger the hall, the less it does. It has some of what I think of as a big-bell warmth. I can hear it bounce back to me in an auditorium during warm up, and I've actually compared that sound that bounces back in our rehearsal hall, which is pretty live.
Rick "tossing a pffft in your direction just for fun" Denney