Posted by Kenneth Sloan on February 22, 2003 at 15:24:33:
In Reply to: King 2341 and Bass Bone posted by DH on February 22, 2003 at 10:17:18:
I've had my 2341 or only a short time, but I think I'm fairly well aclimated to it by now.
Emptying the water was difficult at first - but only because it collects in *different* places that on my previous horn. For example, on my YBB-621S, the 2nd valve tubing goes straight down and collects a *lot* of water - but the King 2341 2nd valve tubing goes straight UP and collects almost nothing.
On the Yamaha, I emptied the 2nd valve tubing OFTEN, pulled, tilted and poured the 1st and 3rd valves regularly, emptied the 4th valve (tilt and pour) occasionally, and had to "spin" once an hour.
On the King, I still tilt and pour 1st and 3rd (and 2nd, but only out of habit - there's rarely anything there) at the top. On the bottom, I pull everything regularly, even though there are several water keys. Actually, I seem to be getting a better feel for using the water keys. There is also a water key on the 4th valve tubing that can just *barely* be reached by my small hand while depressing the 4th valve (with the same hand). Learning to use that water key has been essential in minimizing burbles. Fortunately, I rarely have to "spin" the King - but when I do it seems to require 4 (not 3) revolutions.
I think this is mainly a question of getting used to the instrument. At TUSABTEC, Roger Bobo tried to make a joke of the fact that one masterclass student didn't know how to get rid of the water - it backfired when the student said "I just got the horn *yesterday*".
On ergonomics - the 2341 is very comfortable for me. My only issue is the contortion required to depress the 4th valve AND the water key on the 4th valve tubing at the same time (it seems to need some air to completely empty the water). If I were the type to play 1st valve trombone, the 1st valve tubing is very accessible, but mine has not been tweaked to be silky smooth. I love the oversized valve buttons (Conn-style, now standard on *new*, new King's). The valves are looser and noisier that I was used to on the Yamaha, but work just fine.
Construction is middle-of-the-road. King's are not jewelry (but this is reflected in the price). Mine arrived with two minor (*very* minor) plating/buffing issues (one of which was spotted in the store; the other was only noticed after I took delivery), and a look down the bell reveals a joint that is less than perfect. My main tuning slide is very slightly suspect (*perhaps* not well aligned - I'm still experimenting with it and since it doesn't really bother me...I don't spend much time on it! It may simply be a lubrication issue). When buying, I found considerable variation in the valve compression. I've been told that a little tweaking of the pistons can make a large difference in the sound. The compression on my instrument is better than what I observed on other samples, but compared with the Yamaha it's nothing to write home about. I had the valves on the Yamaha vented, but there's little reason to do that on the King...yet.
If you are in the market and about to start play-testing, I strongly recommend paying special attention to the response while using the 4th valve. My acid test was to play notes immediately below the staff both with and without the 4th valve. The one I bought felt nearly identical with/without the 4th valve; others I tested felt distinctly different. I have a hare-brained theory that this has something to do with piston and valve port finishing and alignment.
Even though my brand new 2341 received excellent pre-sale care, I expect that I'll find some excuse to let Lee Stofer tweak it again sometime soon. Probably not *this* summer, but certainly *next* summer. Right now my only real issue is with the valve springs. They appear to me to be quite variable in strength. I noticed that my 2nd valve finger was tiring, so I swapped that spring (which felt the strongest) with another (3rd, I think) that seemed to be the weakest of the 4. Problem solved. I suppose some sense of symmetry requires that they all be the same strength - but the current arrangement works for me. Oh yes...every once in awhile the valves and the springs (or both) seem a bit noisy - but it's nothing that anyone can hear out front, so I simply ignore it and it goes away. If the noise persists after the horn has been well and truly "broken in", I'll start to think about ways to fix it. (My definition of "truly broken in": - when the 4th valve felts show significant wear}.
Intonation and overall performance? Very good, thank you. After an hour with a tuner I decided that all of the tuning slides belonged right where they were built. A slight pull on the main slide for the band whose conductor likes to tune slightly low (to keep the clarinets happy), and I'm good to go. I used to think that the Yamaha was pretty good in this respect (and it is)- but the King is better (according to my tuner - your milage may vary). If anything, I suspect that the Yamaha was built to A=442+; the King is a solid A=440. All the notes that *I* can play are acceptably in tune for the bands I play in; I can't judge the notes that are above and below my (strictly amateur) comfortable range.
If it matters, I use a Doug Elliott mouthpiece that is the rough equivalent of a Conn Helleberg. Slightly wider and deeper than the middle-of-the-road, but not pegging the meter on either measurement. [TU 2N 130 R5 - if you speak DE specs] I've never even inserted the UMI 2 paperweight that came with the tuba.
That should fan a few flames...