Re: Old CSO Low Brass......overrated????????


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Posted by Ken Sturgeon on February 16, 2002 at 11:19:08:

In Reply to: Old CSO Low Brass......overrated???????? posted by Terry Aikman on February 16, 2002 at 00:32:09:

I think that you have a valid point regarding some of those "old" recordings. However, I think that productions of "bad" performances on recordings are not exclusive to the CSO nor to any of the top orchestras of that time. It's also not exclusive to that time period or to only recordings. As you stated, "Some of their old recordings (i.e. Giulini Mahler 9 & Bruckner 9) are wonderful...” It may be that so many people took offense to your post because it came across as if you were attacking the great Chicago Symphony. The fact is, you could have used any number of the great orchestra's as an example: Boston, Cleveland, Philadelphia, L.A. Phil., Berlin Phil., London Symphony, New York Phil., etc. All have produced fantastic recordings as well as it's share of downers. Something to keep in mind is that the recording techniques back then were not always conducive to retakes if there were mistakes, even one's that were painfully obvious. Even if the orchestra and conductor would have rather done something over again, it may not have been feasible in the space of time they had or cost effective to do so, or both. Today, recording technology is used to cover or eliminate mistakes such as bad notes, phasing, balancing and tuning. Some for the better and some for the worse if engineered poorly. Even with this technology, if you listen close enough, you can still detect mistakes. "Perfection" or "greatness" in art such as music, I believe, is very subjective. Your perception has a great deal to do with how you enjoy or dislike music, a painting, a sculpture or a recording by a great orchestra. I believe that ones perception of art is a very complicated mix of emotion and ideals, passion and standards that is continuously growing. Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder, but everyone has a standard level based on a variety of his or her experiences. I believe that you have a standard and observed a trend of discussions and opinions about the CSO that seemed to place them on an untouchable pedestal. All you did was questioned that placement and opened it up for discussion on this forum which is perfectly valid so please don't let all the flaming get to you. I to have observed what you've observed, but I don't think that it is exclusive to the CSO nor do I think that you do either. I have been to live performances of top orchestras where things really got ugly. I don't think it was carelessness, which I don't excuse, but I think it is just part of being human. No one is perfect and everyone has bad days, even musicians playing live and on recordings. Of course, what I perceived as "ugly" was probably not perceived by others as that. An example is when I was at a Boston Symphony performance of Ein Heldenleben where it was falling apart to the extent that they almost had to stop. However, I believe there were people at that concert that may not have "perceived" this. Do I still hold the Boston Symphony in high regard? Yes. Have I heard them give fantastic performances? Yes! Do I still have a standard of excellence and expectation of my own for them and my other favorite orchestras? Yes.
Is the old CSO brass overrated? Perhaps they are sometimes, but you can't stop people from having opinions, even if they are strong opinions. Are they wrong opinions? That's for you to decide.
My suggestion is to balance your standards with human reality/imperfection. Hold on to your standards of excellence while not settling for mediocrity, but be understanding and respectful to other peoples perceptions even if you don't agree. The beauty of this forum is that you and I can express our opinions, ask and answer questions and learn from the discussions taking from it what we will freely. Even if we get the occasional flame, no one can force an ideal on us. Thanks again to Sean for creating and maintaining this site.

Ken Sturgeon



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