Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ho Ho Holton!


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Posted by Rick Denney on December 25, 2002 at 13:13:48:

In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ho Ho Holton! posted by well.... on December 24, 2002 at 21:09:05:

Don't be too sure they got their full asking price. Let's say that such instruments sell for 10K when they are really fine. And your examples were genuine Yorks, not Holtons. The work to convert one of these to a pristine-looking orchestral 6/4 in silver probably costs the seller in the range of $7000. You have the cost of making the cut (there are maybe two or three people in the world who can do it right predictably, and even then it's a risk), plus the valve body, the fifth valve with custom-made branches, the overhaul, and the plating. If you are starting with a front-action tuba like the Holton, you can use the existing valve body after it's been overhauled, so the cost may be as little as $5000. If you leave it in bare brass, you can save another grand in wholesale costs, maybe.

So, if the consigner is going to get $2500 for the tuba, he'll have to sell it for $10,000 just to make the same money as he will make selling it for its current price as a Bb (including the consignment fee for the more expensive instrument). And if it turns out badly at all, he won't get that much for it. We've seen lots of converted Holtons sell in the $6000 range. The consigner would have to take that risk, pay for the conversion up front, and then wait the six months it would take to complete the work.

For Matt or someone like him to buy it and do okay on the conversion, he'll have to get the carcass for very little (probably under two grand) to make financial sense. Given Matt's very limited resources, he will spend what little time he has for such projects on the horns most likely to result in success, both musically and financially.

And then there's the rumor that no 3/4" valve bodies are available from anywhere, at any price at the moment.

If you sacrifice cosmetics, you can do all this for much less. Oddly located ferrules, strange angles, a mixture of brace styles, and multiple doglegs won't cut it on a conversion that gets the top dollar. But those would perhaps be fine on a low-cost conversion, such as those that Sam Gnagey builds. And his use a low-cost .679" valve body salvaged from tubas that don't get much on the used market, even when they have a smashed bell. I'm sure there are a number of folks quite happy that Sam doesn't do the complete cosmetic overhaul, the buffing, and the plating, because they can get a great horn for a good price. But it's not so easy to take that approach in the .75"-bore grand orchestral size tuba. Chuck G's Minnick Bb shows all those same characteristics of a low-cost conversion, and he got a smashing deal on his, but you can't measure its worth based on its cosmetics.

Thus, I don't think one can draw the conclusion that this horn is flawed on the basis of Matt not snapping it up to make the conversion. The dollars and cents figure strongly into that choice, and ultimately it would be the consigner's decision unless Matt was willing to buy it for the consigner's price.

Rick "doing the math" Denney


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